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Duratec engine
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tinkywinky
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Joined: 17 Jul 2002
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Location: Columbus, OH, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2002 10:58 pm    Post subject: Duratec engine Reply with quote

I've been doing a lot of research on the MPV. The Odyssey is our first choice but the price discrepancy between the two is too large to ignore. The most important thing that's holding us back from the MPV is the Ford Duratec engine used on the MPV - certainly not as reputable as a Honda engine. I was wondering if anyone has similar concerns. Huh?
I could not find any complaints or issues about the MPV's engine on the national highway transportation safety admin's website. However there are many complaints and an investigation into the Mazda Tribute 2002's engine, which is the same as the MPV. Apparently the engine on the 2002 Tribute would stall for no reason. This scares me a lot. I wonder if any MPV owners have had similar issues with that. Huh?
Any comments will be appreciated.
BTW this is a great website! Smile

2002 MPV ES, sand, moonroof
1998 Honda Civic LX
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DMC
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Location: Waukesha, WI, USA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:43 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Welcome to the board!

There was a thread on this, but I can't seem to find it. I think you'll find that the Duratec, both 2.5 and 3.0 versions, have a very good reputation. There was an issue on the early 2.5's with the water pump impeller, but that was a few years ago. I don't believe that anyone has reported a stalling problem with the 3.0 in the MPV.

Plus, if you really look at the problems with the Odyssey, I think you'll find they have a lot more engine/transmission problems than the MPV does. Definitely not up to "Honda standards".

-Dean

'00 MPV LX, Touring/4 Seasons/6CD, Emerald Green/Tan
'06 Ford Freestyle FWD Limited Merlot/Charcoal
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Dan
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:48 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Hi--I think the Duratec reliability issue has been thoroughly discussed with the Duratec passing with flying colors. But like, DMC, I can't locate any of the threads. And I have been looking! Razz In short, there are few/no complaints about the Duratec on the threads I have read (but can't find).

There is an Oddysey vs. MPV board over at Edmunds. Might make some interesting reading if you haven't been there already. Also at Edmunds the Oddysey problems board, and the MPV problems board give a flavor of their respective vehicles.

Good luck whichever way you ultimately decide to go. Dan

Dan
2001 Rainforest Green LX (164,795 miles)--Minnie (The vacationator)
2006 Honda Civic EX with NAVI and 5sp MT (102,338 miles, new block at 89K) (Dan's daily driver)--Blue Car
Sold (scrapped) on 10/30/04 at 165,599.4 miles....1987 Honda Accord DX (165K miles)--Tan Car
Sold (scrapped) on 9/26/09 at 148406.4 miles and 24 years old....1985 Toyota Camry LE --Brown Car (Dan's former daily driver)
And more human powered bikes than I can count.....
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schmaeher
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 10:50 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

I remember a good thread a while a go as well but can't find it now either? Perhaps one of our resident "motor heads" will help out Smile Anyway I felt better about he Duratec after hearing owners opinions and having the knowledge that my motor is the same one being used in several Fords as well as Lincolns and Jaguars...

Cheers
Ken
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marco
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:42 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Sorry, cannot find the thread for you either, maybe it has been archived. But I remember the Duratec that is used on the MPV is also used on the Jaguars. If it used on the Jag, it should not be as bad as the one in FORD vehicle.
2000 MVP LX
1991 Honda Accord EXR Wagon
Marco
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Alex
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 11:48 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Here are some old topics for you:



I think this should be a good start.
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98SVT-00MPV
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Warning, Large Image:

http://www.jag-lovers.org/brochures/new_s_type/s_99uk_40_l.jpg

Yup, there is your 3.0L Duratec, with some slight intake manifold changes and whatnot.

The story of the Duratec, but first, my qualifications. Back in 1998 I rented this car called a Ford Contour. I'd really been "out" of cars since I met my wife, got married, contemplated children and what not. Drove the little rental and said, heck this thing handles NICE did a little research and found out they had a well designed chassis and two brand new engines from Ford. The one I had had a 2L Zetec 4 cylinder engine. I finally bought one of those, used, in the spring of 98. Drove it around and discovered www.contour.org

Learned about the other engine, the 2.5L Duratec. Where did the Duratec come from? Porsche and Cosworth. You have to understand that many auto manufacturers don't actually design engines any more. So in the early '90's Ford contracted with Porsche to develop a 2.5L V6 that would fit in the engine bay of the Contour. The engine Ford got from Porsche produced 250HP out of 2.5L, and was about 1cm too long to fit.

So it was "Forderized" according to Terry Haines, a chief powertrain engineer on the project. Which resulted in shortening the engine by 1cm and using tolerances that more closely fit in a mass produced assembly line. Once these changes, plus emissions were fitted, the mass produced Duratec produced 170HP at the crank.

The Duratec is a really fine modern engine, all aluminum construction with cast in iron cylinder sleeves (Cosworth's contribution, they got it right after such a miserable failure with the Chevy Vega, also a Cosworth Aluminum Engine.)

I believe the Duratec has mades it's way to Ward 's Automotive 10 best engine list 3 times from 1995 to 1999, IIRC.

This engine is essentially part of the "Modular" engine family at Ford, so it can be easily reconfigured and repackaged for other cars.

So you will find the Duratec, or derivatives of the Duratec in the following vehicles:

Ford Contour/Mercury Mystique/ Ford Mondeo (Everywhere, but North America it seems, including Mexico.)
Mercury/Ford Cougar (The Cougar is a Ford in Europe)
Ford Taurus/Mercury Sable
Lincoln LS, the DAMB V6 in the LS is based on the Duratec, but slightly different block and heads
Jaguar X Type both 2.5L and 3.0L
Mazda Tribute/Ford Escape
Coming Soon Jaguar S-Type

and for the wildest Duratec, imagine two of them mated together to make a V12, that's right the Aston Martin V12 Vantage is the "genetically engineered" offspring of the 3.0L Duratec.

http://www.racecar.co.uk/geneva/gallery3.html

The engine itself is very reliable, but has had problems with water pumps prematurely failing. Also, SVT versions driven at high RPMs seem to have a higher rate of crank bearing failure.

There seems to be an improved crankshaft damper that appears to address the "crank whip" (The bending of the crankshaft) that can destroy bearings.

I would not worry about the Duratec, but then I own two, and will soon have one turbocharged.

The most important part about your purchase is locating a dealer you can trust. This is true of any make you buy, because if you have problems, you want the dealer to be on your side.

HTH,

TB
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tinkywinky
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:28 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Thanks everybody for your help! I'm amazed at the amount of knowledge the owners on this board has. What I've read here certainly eased a lot of concerns I have about the Duratec Engine.
BTW the comment about Honda engines has a lot of truth to it. I also own a 98 Civic that's having problems with the transmission to cause the car to surge. It has yet to be fixed and my confidence in Honda's product has really declined. It's amazing how perceptions can persist.
I actually called Mazda's customer service line today about the engine. They told me that it is the same engine on the Tribute however they have not had any problems with the MPV. It seems Mazda has yet to find an explanation as to why the engine on the Tribute will fail abruptly. I hope its' something other than the engine itself.
The fact that this club exists just makes the MPV purchase much more tempting - I know I can find answers with the help of this club:)

2002 MPV ES, sand, moonroof
1998 Honda Civic LX
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Alex
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2002 9:55 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

My humble opinion is that the engine problems that most cars experience are usually related to supporting components such as PCM, sensors, electronics, etc and not the engine itself (we are not talking about Windstar, here, OK? Smile). I believe that whatever is wrong with Escape/Tribute is definitely not the engine itself.

BTW, as water pump impeller was mentioned here before. I just wanted to note that MPV's engines use the new redesigned water pump with metallic impeller, not plastic. So that shouldn't be a problem either.
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schmaeher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 8:57 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Just my thoughts on Honda quality, I have always suspected that it wasn't as strong as its reputation, I have no facts to prove (just that I don't seem to see "old" Hondas on the road). Is it just because after the owner has had to pay full list for the car from an arrogant dealer that they refuse to acknowledge any defects or are the Honda owners more aware as a group that complaining in public will reduce their trade in values or am I completely wrong and these cars are bullet-proof?

Ken

(Yes I am sure that I will get flamed for this, but it is kind of an uninteresting day so far...)
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DMC
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 9:27 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Funny that you mention a problem with a '98 Civic - my Aunt recently got rid of hers because she was looking at a transmission replacement at only 60,000 miles, I think her problem was similar to yours.

I used to be a Honda fan, too - I had an '86 Acura Integra that had 175,000 miles on it when I traded it in, and I should have kept it - it still ran great, hardly any rust on the body. Unfortunately for it, I found my '93 MX-6 sitting on a used car lot. Wink

Of course, now that Honda has turned its back on CART and gone to the IRL, I refuse to buy any Honda product, but that's a different story. Angry

Ken, I think Hondas were, for a long time, bulletproof. I have a friend whose family always bought Hondas, and they always had good luck with them. However, the last Honda they bought was a '91 Accord, it's still going with something like 250K on it. Seems like somewhere in the mid to late-90's, they had to be a lot more cost conscious and started cutting corners - the strut suspension instead of the double wishbone suspension on the new Civic platform is a perfect example. I think they are still put together well, but some of the components that they use may not be as high quality as they were in the past. IMHO, of course.

One other comment on the Duratec - the Trib/Escape is the same engine, but uses a different transmission than the MPV - that could very well account for a problem that shows up on one and not the other, since the PCM controls both.

-Dean

'00 MPV LX, Touring/4 Seasons/6CD, Emerald Green/Tan
'06 Ford Freestyle FWD Limited Merlot/Charcoal
Mobil1Pennzoil, Meguiars wax Klasse AIO Meguiars NXT Back to AIO.
YMMV.
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schmaeher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 10:12 am    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

They don't have the double wishbone suspension on the Civic anymore??? That is a bit of good news for Mazda!!! Smile
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tinkywinky
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

This is a little off topic, but sounds like there are a lot of transmission problems on the CIVIC. DMC, I'm sure your aunt's had the same problem as mine. The repair of this problem involves two steps, first flushing the transmission and replace the linear selonoid, and if that doesn't work replace the transmission. This is according to Honda's TSB. My car is after warranty but Honda has agreed to pay 1/2 of the first step (about 300) and "most of" the transmission replacement if found necessary. Your aunt probably could have got them to do the same.
2002 MPV ES, sand, moonroof
1998 Honda Civic LX
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marco
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Honda!
I have 1991 Honda Accord with 240K on it and still not have a major problem beside rusting around the back wheels. Maybe the new Honda is less reliable. Here in Toronto I still see an 198? Honda Civic driving around...

2000 MVP LX
1991 Honda Accord EXR Wagon
Marco
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schmaeher
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 19, 2002 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re:Duratec engine Reply with quote

Quote:
beside rusting around the back wheels.


Uhh, dude, if I had this problem I would be complaining about the car not singing its praises. My expectation is that any car should be able to travel 240k in 11 years (my 84 Nissan had no trouble doing that!).
Maybe it is the owners see things differently...
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