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MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity
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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 4:52 pm    Post subject: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

I've removed the alternator in my MVP (as per described in a another topic - great description by msaxy) - However, just prior to popping out the alternator the control wires pulled from the connector. While I believe I can repair the wire ends (to the original connector) I don't know the polarity??

I currently have 2 wires hanging (one white with a red tracer and one white with a green tracer) How can I figure out which goes to which connector on my shiney new Bosch alternator?

Cheers!
Frank
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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

mvpmadness wrote:
I've removed the alternator in my MVP (as per described in a another topic - great description by msaxy) - However, just prior to popping out the alternator the control wires pulled from the connector. While I believe I can repair the wire ends (to the original connector) I don't know the polarity??

I currently have 2 wires hanging (one white with a red tracer and one white with a green tracer) How can I figure out which goes to which connector on my shiney new Bosch alternator?

Cheers!
Frank


Which model do you have? 00-01 or 02+

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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 8:10 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

It is a 2001.

thank you.
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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:11 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

You are a brave soul for going through this diy. Certainly not for the faint hearted.

So this is what I found hth.

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alternator details Large Web view.jpg

alternator details Large Web view.jpg - File downloaded or viewed 878 time(s)

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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

I'm not sure I understand the image on the top right.

Imagine the alternator on the floor, with the connector plugged in. Keeping in mind there is a bump on one of the side of the connector for the spring clip that holds the connector in place. So - Do you think the picture you posted would be looking down at the alternator with the spring clip on the top being the bump and D to the left and P to the right?

Also, this is an assumption based on the chart numbers, but do you think D is the wire with the green tracer? I am assuming this as they note the Voltage reading being 0. I would also imagine that P would be the field exciter power (which would be the wire with the Red tracer.)

I'd really hate to fry this new alternator. I wish a could find a pick of the connector. Question

Thanks much for all the effort?
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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:47 am    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

Opps - I meant "the image in the top left" of your picture.
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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:26 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

mvpmadness wrote:
Opps - I meant "the image in the top left" of your picture.


Understand what you mean, does anyone know the answer to this one.

Obviously a picture would tell a thousand word.

Problem is I think that little sucker is well and truly stuck in a hard to get to place.

Will see if I can find anything that helps.

Although a quick test with a multimeter should reveal which one is which.

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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

Have you progressed at all. Anybody have any experience with this??
2000 MPV Seychelles Green 279,000 km
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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 12:49 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

Thanks for checking in!

Well, Progress -> (Yes & No)

I visited a junk yard and pulled a connector from another vehicle. This allowed me to know for sure the polarity. I've since put the good connector on my vehicle and completed the installation BUT the alternator is still not charging the battery.

I've tested the output voltage at the alternator power output and it remains at battery voltage (12.3 to 12.5 volts) with the engine running (Idle through to 2K RPM).

I've also tested the field voltage (at the alternator terminal noted as D&P in the diagram above) and I also see voltage. So, the field should be excited.

I suppose the rebuilt alternator I purchased could be bad, but I did go with a $220 BOSCH rebuilt (rebuilt by BOSCH) as I hate to cheap out on the parts only to have to revisit the job.

I also swapped in a new battery from another vehicle. This went against my better judgment as all tests point to a charging system issue, but a friend of mine convinced me to give it a try as it couldn't hurt.

Any other thoughts would be very much appreciated.
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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 27, 2007 11:16 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

mvpmadness wrote:
Thanks for checking in!

Well, Progress -> (Yes & No)

I visited a junk yard and pulled a connector from another vehicle. This allowed me to know for sure the polarity. I've since put the good connector on my vehicle and completed the installation BUT the alternator is still not charging the battery.

I've tested the output voltage at the alternator power output and it remains at battery voltage (12.3 to 12.5 volts) with the engine running (Idle through to 2K RPM).

I've also tested the field voltage (at the alternator terminal noted as D&P in the diagram above) and I also see voltage. So, the field should be excited.

I suppose the rebuilt alternator I purchased could be bad, but I did go with a $220 BOSCH rebuilt (rebuilt by BOSCH) as I hate to cheap out on the parts only to have to revisit the job.

I also swapped in a new battery from another vehicle. This went against my better judgment as all tests point to a charging system issue, but a friend of mine convinced me to give it a try as it couldn't hurt.

Any other thoughts would be very much appreciated.


That alternator output seems a bit low, shouldn't it be around the 13-15 mark?

Can you check the output amps of the alternator should be 98 amps at 2000 rpm. If it is not putting this out then it could be bad.

If the alternator isn't charging then that new battery will become old very soon.

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clewis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

Hey - glad to hear you decided to diy this. Probably not something I'd be willing to try myself, as I have read the procedure.

One question for you. I have the 2001 also, and I want to avoid ever having to do what you're doing. Have you installed the alternator shroud that is supposed to keep the alternator from getting splashed (leading to corrosion and failure?) If so, where'd you get it and what did it cost you?
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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 4:50 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

I tested the output voltage at the alternator to determine if it was a wiring issue. Field power to the alternator is fine but output voltage is the same as the battery post + reading.

I've pulled the alternator again and will have it bench tested tomorrow. There are two two other threads here with comments that have tainted my impression of Bosh's quality.)

http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=5539&start=75&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alternator+bosch
http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=8614&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alternator+bosch+rebuilt&start=0

I've always trusted NAPA as "the" source for quality electrical components and I've always trusted in general Bosch's good name. (so I bought a Bosch from NAPA)

I've not purchased the splash guard "yet" but will soon and will let you know. Other posts have indicated I should expect to pay between $35 and $50 US.

I'll keep you posted.
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cpapashley
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 7:56 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

mvpmadness wrote:
I tested the output voltage at the alternator to determine if it was a wiring issue. Field power to the alternator is fine but output voltage is the same as the battery post + reading.

I've pulled the alternator again and will have it bench tested tomorrow. There are two two other threads here with comments that have tainted my impression of Bosh's quality.)

http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=5539&start=75&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alternator+bosch
http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?t=8614&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=alternator+bosch+rebuilt&start=0

I've always trusted NAPA as "the" source for quality electrical components and I've always trusted in general Bosch's good name. (so I bought a Bosch from NAPA)

I've not purchased the splash guard "yet" but will soon and will let you know. Other posts have indicated I should expect to pay between $35 and $50 US.

I'll keep you posted.


It is funny, bosch used to be very well respected downunder as well 20 years ago, somewhere they must have lost the all important aspect of a quality product and sold out to volume. Sad

2000 MPV Seychelles Green 279,000 km
Custom Cold Air Intake, K&N Panel Filter
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clewis
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 28, 2007 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

guessing that splash guard is a dealer item, right?
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mvpmadness
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 10:47 am    Post subject: Neep more help Re: MVP Alternator Control Wire Polarity Reply with quote

Ok, second Bosch still not working out.

I'm going back to basics and think that maybe (?) it's the connector that I retrofitted?

I've referenced a number of service manuals and found a lot of data on the wiring and wire colors. The one book (Michel/Repair) is good about showing color reference to connector numbers on the PowerTrain Control Module BUT every manual (including Michel) fails to point out the little detail of which wire goes to D and which goes to P on the generator (as referenced in the chart above.)

I know that chart above gives test voltages but it seems impossible to get a test reading while the vehicle is running A) because the connector is impossible to get at and B) the connector is completely weather sealed so there is no way to get a meter probe on either lead without pulling the connector off the generator.

Does anyone have access to wiring diagrams that not only show wire colors but also gives reference to the generator connector D and P. The wires I am particularly interested in are WHT/RED (connecting to PCM - 53) and WHT/BLU (connecting to 30)

Thanks
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