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03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift
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kmb
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:51 pm    Post subject: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

While driving, my MPV suddenly jerked like it had just been hit. While pulling away after stopping the vehicle, the trans wouldn't shift from first gear. Moving the gear selector from OD to 3 gave an extremely hard upshift from 1st. Same thing happens from every stop. Vehicle was at operating temp, trans fluid still looks and smells good.

Edited to add: Also, it's been a foggy, misty day. Is there a transmission related sensor that may be having an issue with the moisture?

Any suggestions where to start looking?

Thank you
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scross
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

What happens when you put it on 2 and then slowly accelerate from a dead stop? You should start off in first and then shift smoothly into second at some point, but then go no higher. If this works then go ahead and move on to 3, and so on, and see what happens. Also, you might want to turn off the overdrive using the button at the end of the shift lever to see if that makes any difference.

Do you have a CEL, or is the OD indicator flashing? This usually signifies that the computer has identified some problem with the transmission, and you might be able to pull an OBD code for it. As an FYI, the MPV has at least two separate control computers - a PCM for the engine and a TCM for the tranny.

It's also possible that you have some kind of brake problem that is causing the brakes to drag on the wheels and makes it feel like you have a tranny problem. I accidentally forgot to disengage the parking brake one time on an old car (and it so happened that the warning light was out), and was convinced that I had blown something in the transmission until I discovered my mistake.
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subearu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 6:23 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Actually to be clear, on the '02-'04 with the JATCO 5sp, shifting to 2 puts the tranny in 2nd and keeps it there, there is no shift from 1 to 2. Putting the selector in 3 does however, it starts in 2 and will shift to 3.

Not sure if the tranny logic applies to the 5sp in '05-'06 as they did change some things on it.

-Brian

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kmb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:07 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Disconnected the battery last night to clear a previous CEL. When I drove away this morning, things seemed fine. About 5 miles in, vehicle jerked, wouldn't shift, and CEL lit.

Stops at 2 AutoZones (person at first location didn't seem too sure of what they were doing) gave me P0122. Not what I was expecting. But I did locate a posting for an '05 presenting the same symptoms and CEL code, so for $30 I'll try a new TPS after work.
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scross
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 5:38 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Well, in the Troubleshooting Manual under "Abnormal Shifting", the TPS is one of the first things called out, as well as several other sensors. Hopefully this is the source of your problem and a cheap fix. You can quickly test the TPS by leaving the car in park, and slowly and steadily revving the engine up and down. If the engine doesn't smoothly rev up and down along with your actions then that implies a bad TPS. On a graphing OBD scanner like I have, a TPS problem shows up as a discontinuity or flat spot in the graph, or maybe even a signal drop-out.

Before replacing the unit, though, you might try just disconnecting and reconnecting the electrical connection to it, and maybe spraying throttle body cleaner on the external mechanism of the T.B., just in case it's dirty and sticking. While you're at it it also wouldn't hurt to pull the intake hose off and clean the inside of the T.B. itself, as things can stick there, too.

As to subearu's comment above, this didn't jive with what I remembered so I ran a quick test on our 2002 with it on 2. The tranny either starts off in 2nd or immediately upshifts there with acceleration (hard to tell), but there is a definite downshift with deceleration (after a slight lag), meaning that it is shifting between 2nd and 1st, as far as I can tell. Either that or some other mechanical change is occurring which feels like a downshift. But it almost feels like it upshifts again immediately after touching the accelerator, or maybe even when touching the brake (again, hard to tell). I would go drive it around the 'hood some more, but people were starting to look at me funny. (This is the reason why I usually make my test drives well after dark).

Very Happy

Subearu, if you can point me to some good technical info concerning the JATCO JF506E (or Mazda 5F31J, or whatever the proper designation is for a 2002 A.T.), then I would be much appreciative.
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kmb
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

I ended up replacing the TPS. With 145k miles on the odo, I figured it couldn't hurt.

I've done some searching and found voltages for the TPS, but haven't found instructions on how to check the voltage. Is there a posting that explains how to do this?
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subearu
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Back in '02 I went through the gears to find out when the torque converter locked up in 4th and 5th and detailed it in a post here: http://forum.mpvclub.com/viewtopic.php?p=16623#16623

The owner manual also states that 2nd on the shifter = 2nd gear only.

Page 5-11 of the 2002 Mazda MPV Owner's Manual wrote:
Shift patterns without overdrive:
D = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th
3 = 2nd, 3rd
2 = 2nd

Shift patterns with overdrive:
D = 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
3 = 2nd, 3rd
2 = 2nd

-Brian

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scross
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Ah, the most obvious place that I didn't even bother to look - the Owner's Manual! But remember that they changed the TCM programming at a later date, with a re-flash in order to reduce shift-shock and all, so I suspect that the Owner's Manual is out of date now. There is a definite downshift on our 2002 MPV, and it's not always smooth, either, depending on what you're doing at the time, so it's hard to miss. But now that it's dark I will have to go out for another round of tests, just to make sure. I'll let you know if I find out differently.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:44 am    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

we never had our '02 tranny reprogrammed, fwiw....

-Brian

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scross
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:02 am    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

I haven't seen anything about TPS voltages yet, but per the Workshop Manual the resistance between the A and C terminals (the two outer ones) on the TPS itself should be between 3.2 and 4.8 kilohms. The resistance between the A and B terminals (outer and middle) should change smoothly while the throttle valve is gradually opened (no numbers for that, but it probably starts at or near zero and goes up from there). As far as I can tell the A terminal is the one on the bottom side of the TPS, but I could be wrong.
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kmb
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 22, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

Oops, I wasn't even close on that one. I'm also working on an '87 T-bird. TPS adjustments require voltage checks on that one.

I noticed that the terminals were labeled in the inside of the plug on the old TPS, so that should help.

Thanks for the info!
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scross
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 6:20 am    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

I found a little light reading about the tranny here:

Automatic Transaxle Workshop Manual JA5A-EL: http://foor.ee/m6/Mazda6/English/1738-1E-02D.pdf

Related, but not necessarily applicable:

Automatic Transaxle Workshop Manual Supplement JA5AX-EL: http://foor.ee/m6/Mazda6/English/1765-1E-02H.pdf
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sefi
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: 03 MPV transmission jerking and won't shift Reply with quote

hi.
i own a small transmission shop in ISRAEL.
i have an 2005 3000 MPV with the jf506E.
it upshifts like new car from 1st to 5th. when i try to kick-down it slips to neutral.
it slao somtimes stays in neutral (totally slip) when shifting to D, but shifting to R and back to D solves it.
we took out the VB, to see that that paper is a total mess, and it looks like there were water in the transmission. we cleand it and checked all valves runs freely. we also changed the pressure regulator, neutral solenoid and high clutch solenoid to new solenoids.
problem did`nt change a bit! upshift as a new car under part, half and full throtlle, but slips to neutral when i try to kick-down.
maybe one of you can point me to the problem?
thanks
sefi
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