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SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff)
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dixonL2
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:08 pm    Post subject: SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

OK, I know that later in the season it'll be "ugly" white stuff... so a thread begins discussing relative merits, experiences, and sizes...

Recomendations:
I can highly recommend the Michelin Arctic Alpin as a snow/ice tire for most conditions - quiet in the dry, whines a little in the wet, not nearly as "squishy" as Blizzaks/Guardex's, and not noisy (quieter. in fact, than many all-season tires). It also has a good square profile - normally not the best for deep snow, but has performed very well in all winter conditions for me and looks great. There may be better "deep snow" tires but these excel in the packed/wet/icy/slushy/gooey crud we get in the northeast. On dedicated snow tires (Alpins), our old Quest, my 1990 Jetta GLI, our old 2000 Passat, and 3 others have Very Significantly outperformed any 4wd/awd SUV on all-season tires and in identical conditions. The Arctic Alpins aren't all-seasons, but perform much like them, perhaps a little "softer" in feel. Treadwear has been excellent for a snow, There is 15k on 'em now and there's enough tread left to last at least through this winter and perhaps partly into next (I'll probably get 25+kmiles of useful snow life out of the tires).

Size:
Anyone else notice that the overall diameter of the tires on the '02 ES (with the 17" combination) is significantly larger than the '00-'02 LX/DX? I'm talking overall outside diameter here - and it differs by about a full inch!

I know the wheels/snowtires from our old Nissan Quest fit our '02 MPV ES - same bolt pattern and the offset is "close enough" (I fitted them the day I brought the MPV home just to be sure; BTW the MPV jack works well). Note, however, that my snows are 215/70/15, significantly larger in diameter than the stock tires found on LX and DX models (205/65/15) but THE SAME diameter (within 1%) as the ES' 215/60/17.

All that said, the 215/70/15 wheel/tire combo looked great on the MPV and fit, no problem, on the hubs and in the wheelwells. It actually cured some of that "under tired" look that the MPV has.

<whew>

Comments/recommendations?

2002 MPVes silver "GTI", Mazda hitch, fogs
2003 Mazdaspeed Protege, black mica "ping" on msprotege.com
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swiftturtle
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Snow? Oh yeah i've seen that before........ Grin

I still get a kick when the local Kmart sells ice scrapers. Although I'm glad they do, very useful to take those puffy stickers off your car. Yes I don't have anything useful to post about this subject.....I'll stop now... Cool

2003 ES Coastal Blue Metallic
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hoopofficial
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 2:33 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

For the uniformed, that being me. What is the difference between a 215/70/17 tire vs a 215/60/17. For that matter, can someone give me a layman's explanation of the numbering convention for tires. Huh? Thanks.
2002 MPV ES Midnight Blue Mica, 4 Seasons, 6 Disc Changer, Rear Step, Rear Spoiler, Roof Rack, Fog Lights, Mud Guards, Bug Deflector, Cargo Mat and Cargo Net.
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Ned Rothstein
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Here is the breakdown of tire sidewall marking for a given tire size (P215/60-R17 94H M+S for this example):

P denotes that this is a passenger car tire

215 is the width of the tire in mm

60 is the aspect ratio- the width of the sidewall as a percentage of the width of the tire

R is for radial construction

17 is the diameter of the rim this tire fits on

94 refers to the amount of weight this tire can handle (I don't have a chart in front of me, so I don't know how much this is)

H is the speed rating (they don't go in alphabetical order). Originally this was the first rating, and probably stood for "High". Then, as tires got better, they added V and Z (we are now in Ferrari territory). Now they have lower speed ratings like Q, S and T that are found on more "vanilla vehicles. To make a long story short, they correspond to the highest sustained velocity one should travel at before you need to think about "Track only" tires.

Finally, M+S means that this tire has been rated for use in mud and snow, although it is not necessarily a Winter tire

www.tirerack.com has a very well written section on what these as well as the UTOQ ratings (yet more stuff on your sidewall) all mean, but to answer your original question, the one with the 60 instead of the 70 has a smaller aspect ratio, and will corner better because it has a smaller, therefore stiffer sidewall.

NED ROTHSTEIN
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Alex
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 3:58 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

In the Tools section of this web site (http://www.mpvclub.com/index.php?action=tools) there is a tire size calculator. You just enter the values and get approximate outside diameter. Enter different value and see the difference.

There is a tire size reference table that compares different tires to the three stock sizes for the MPV: http://www.mpvclub.com/index.php?action=tirespec00-02

I hope this helps.
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Alex
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 4:11 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

I have used Arctic Alpins last winter and they were great. Here are some of my previous posts on my Michelins:



I wouldn't drive on snow without snow tires anymore...
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javadoc
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

A hex on you Dixon, for being the first to utter the "S" word this season. For shame!!!

I heartily recommend Nokian Hakkapeliitta 1 snow tires for those who need SNOW tires and not just snow tires. You can get them in Ninny (studless) or Bruce (studded) (j/k about the names) Wink I'm on my 5th snow season (25k miles) on the set of Hakks' that I have, and the treads are at about 50% still, although I need to have them restudded. Better $80 than $500-600 if I can get another year of good service out of the Finnish tires, eh?

The thing that sold me on the Hakks was that I put them on my d.w's car and we proceeded to have a record snow storm (20-some inches, that time) and we were talking about the day. I said, "Wow, the roads were aweful today," to which she replied, "Really? I didn't notice." It was me with Pirelli snow tires in my 4x4 MPV and her in her Saab 9000T w/the Hakks. I sold the Pirellis and got some Hakks. Smile

The big white marshmallow guy makes a good skin in the 'Arctic Alpin' as well, as folks will attest, but I'm not a Michelin fan.
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Rogman
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Alpins all the way...got a set for my Civic and never felt safer in winter. They handle so well on dry pavement and are so quiet (for snows), I have to remind myself to take them off in the spring

Like Alex, will likely bite the bullet and purchase a set for the new van...

My 2 cents

Rog

2002 Midnight Blue LX w Tow
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rc168
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Just curious, is it feasible to purchase only the extra set of tires without having to purchase wheels?

Three years of New England driving has taught a west coastner in me to get real--4-season is nice but whatever you spent on snow tires could be a much better alternative to even a minor accident.

Given the amount of driving, a good set of tires should last 3 to 5 seasons and I am wary that without the extra wheels, both tires and rims could easily get damaged. On the other hand though, I don't want to haul the extra wheels in the van to the shop to have them swapped every fall and spring.

Thanks.

Robert
2002 MPV ES Sand
1991 Camry DX Sky Blue
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Lazyfox
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2002 7:02 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Robert, my tire guy has a "lifetime" deal when you buy winter tires through him. He'll swap the tires in fall in spring on your rims for as long as you own the tire. Shop around at some of the smaller tire stores in your area, they may offer a similar deal.
-Dean

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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 3:56 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

I was thinking of either the Hakks, or the Mich. A.A.s. Would be nice to see an independent comparison of them. Java, do they still allow studded tires up your way?
Dan
2001 Rainforest Green LX (164,795 miles)--Minnie (The vacationator)
2006 Honda Civic EX with NAVI and 5sp MT (102,338 miles, new block at 89K) (Dan's daily driver)--Blue Car
Sold (scrapped) on 10/30/04 at 165,599.4 miles....1987 Honda Accord DX (165K miles)--Tan Car
Sold (scrapped) on 9/26/09 at 148406.4 miles and 24 years old....1985 Toyota Camry LE --Brown Car (Dan's former daily driver)
And more human powered bikes than I can count.....
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dixonL2
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:49 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Sorry if I threw the "snow" hex on... but it's gonna be 90 in NJ today so I guess if it falls it won't stick... maybe just some slush Wink

I guess I wasn't really a Michelin fan either, but reading some great reviews and having a set of fantastic (for an all-season) X-one's on the ol' Quest made me a believer - IF you can get 'em at a decent price. Otherwise they get too spendy.

The Arctic Alpin is a few-compromises snow tire. I've heard the Hakka's are great, and certainly anyone who's spoken up about them has been an ardent fan, but I haven't driven them. I know (personal experience) that Guardex's (600's) and Blizzaks are comparative marshmellows (mushy and wear out quickly) compared to the AA, with comparable traction.

The AA gives up a little to fully-treaded, noisier, or studded snow tires in really deep stuff but is great on slush, ice, and packed snow, and is better in any snow condition than even the best fully-treaded all-season I've driven (and having many years in industrial sales/application engineering/marketing, I've driven a lot, on many types of tire). Most importantly, it handles predictably in all conditions, no surprises.

Hope this thread helps, and thanks everyone for the advice and links!

AnyMPV-specific characteristics I should be aware of? Ours is new and hasn't seen snow yet... how's the trac control work, good? Any advice welcome...

2002 MPVes silver "GTI", Mazda hitch, fogs
2003 Mazdaspeed Protege, black mica "ping" on msprotege.com
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 7:54 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

I checked tirerack.com a few days ago, and they had the 15 inch AAs available for $76. Shipping and installation and other charges will add up. IIRC, the AAs have max pressure of 42 psi, so you can use them on the MPV at 35 psi with a little cushion. I don't know that all tires will give you that. I'm not sure about the load rating. Forgot to check.

BTW, Consumer Reports will rate snow tires soon (probably November issue based on past years). Last time they rated snows, (Nov. '99?) they gave the Mich AAs the top rating. I think they wanted to rate Nokian Hakks, but couldn't get them in the size they were using for testing. Note to CR: Why not just use a different size for the tests so you can include all tires you want? Or does that make too much sense?

Dan
2001 Rainforest Green LX (164,795 miles)--Minnie (The vacationator)
2006 Honda Civic EX with NAVI and 5sp MT (102,338 miles, new block at 89K) (Dan's daily driver)--Blue Car
Sold (scrapped) on 10/30/04 at 165,599.4 miles....1987 Honda Accord DX (165K miles)--Tan Car
Sold (scrapped) on 9/26/09 at 148406.4 miles and 24 years old....1985 Toyota Camry LE --Brown Car (Dan's former daily driver)
And more human powered bikes than I can count.....
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Gundam
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 8:45 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Can anyone tell me is it necessary to buy snow tires (& rims) for 02 MPV ES?

Because I am a 1st time van owner and I was told from dealer that the current 17" tires and rims also work in winter since we had traction control in ES model....

But just concern if I don't change it, can it handle well in winter ? Because we are living in Toronto, snow is always a problem for us when driving......

2002 MPV ES-w/GFX white
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Dan
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2002 9:18 am    Post subject: Re:SNOW TIRES (pretty white stuff) Reply with quote

Is it necessary? No. I live in SE Wisconsin (about 40 inches of snow per year) and have not had snow tires in last ten years. Just used all seasons.

Is it a good idea? Probably. A lot might depend on your driving style (if you don't have snows you probably need to be more careful) and whether you can avoid driving when the weather is bad, but snows will not hurt.

If you read the previous posts you will get some 'been there' opinions and they seem to favor snows as the way to go. But in my experience, all season tires are OK as long as you understand their limitations (snows have limitations, too) and don't ask them to do more than they are capable of.

Dan
2001 Rainforest Green LX (164,795 miles)--Minnie (The vacationator)
2006 Honda Civic EX with NAVI and 5sp MT (102,338 miles, new block at 89K) (Dan's daily driver)--Blue Car
Sold (scrapped) on 10/30/04 at 165,599.4 miles....1987 Honda Accord DX (165K miles)--Tan Car
Sold (scrapped) on 9/26/09 at 148406.4 miles and 24 years old....1985 Toyota Camry LE --Brown Car (Dan's former daily driver)
And more human powered bikes than I can count.....
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