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Need some D/S half shaft help
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2017 6:38 pm    Post subject: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Hey all I'm replacing my half shafts in front (93 4wd auto 3.0) and I am having a heck of a time removing the D/S one. It has roughly +/- 1/4" of play and through searching these very forums i have discovered that.....and diagnosed that..... it is the culprit of much shuddering and shimmying from ~35-65mph. On the P/S i rigged up the old strap and slide hammer and with one hit she popped right out. Now I'm on the D/S which is apparently a female inner cv (new to me) and this thing WILL NOT come out. I have rigged a chain and pipe tool with 20lbs of steel dumbell weights as the slide hammer....nada. I have tried prying....dented the flange. Does anyone have any input on this??? Thanks

P.S. I have everything else removed...its just the mechanical bond between the splined shaft/ the transaxle + inner circlip i need help defeating

'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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Cybersombosis
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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 10:37 am    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

You have to get a big pry bar in between the axle and seal. It is very difficult if working with just jack stands as a long lever won't fit without lifting the vehicle. Ask me how I know. This is one of the two times that had to send it off to the mechanic just to pop it out. I had everything apart and didn't have the right tools for the job. Oddly enough the passenger side clip was so loose I was leaking gear oil and had to enlarge the clip after many weeks of puddles in the driveway. Thought it was the pinion seal but the clip was not doing it's job. The axle basically fell out when I went to remove it.

Doug

97' MPV All Sport 4x4
Black Widow 1600 Alarm, Uhaul class 3 tow hitch, K&N air filter, Bi Xenon HID retrofit.
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 12:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Did you happen to know the product numbers for the inner seals by chance? I've been perusing around but there are a lot of similar looking ones and I'm not sure what the technical term is for them...I would call them axle seals but listed are pinion/rack seals...pinion differential seals....etc. I'm just looking for the ones that the inner splined shafts pass through
'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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poptop
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

I was able to pop mine out only after using a wedge and HITTING the wedge so it levered the axle to pop it out. No matter how much I pried, only the sudden shock of a hammer blow popped it out. attached is a parts list for the front diff. Google any Mazda dealer and they now show the parts breakdown with pictures. Looks like you need the 27-238 seal.
1990 4X4 V-6 5-speed
1991 2WD V-6
1994 2WD V-6
Scion Xb
A pile of old timing belts





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Cybersombosis
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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

The part number pop top quoted is correct. Make sure it looks like the below for the passenger side. I didn't change the driver's side as it wasn't leaking. I only changed it because I thought it was leaking but was a faulty circlip in the end. Money wasted? Probably.

Doug

https://www.autopartsway.com/partlist.cfm?mazda/1997/mpv/es/3.0l-v6/allb/driveline-and-axles/axle-bearings-and-seals/axle-differential-seal/pagenum1/tabs

97' MPV All Sport 4x4
Black Widow 1600 Alarm, Uhaul class 3 tow hitch, K&N air filter, Bi Xenon HID retrofit.
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Awesome I really appreciate all the help yeah like you said through all the work I have been doing on this thing I have accumulated some extra parts I didn't need...so money down the drain (until future part failures I suppose). Getting low on extra funds and can't afford to order the wrong parts. You are saving me quite a bit of trouble and I am grateful for that. I will have to try the wedge technique....I was able to get a 70" pry bar between the axle and trans (I have a trimmed bumper so was able to get a good angle) and tried to give it some very sharp yanks...still nothing. She's in there pretty stubbornly. I will have to try the wedge technique. Basically can't go backwards now as I've completely destroyed the D/S dust shield on the inner CV. One thing I did notice is that the inner CV wobbles SO badly on the drivers side output shaft....that I'm hoping its not the actual steering rack going out. I would think if it was that loose on the shaft the damn thing should've popped off by now?? I guess we'll see as we get in further.
'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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poptop
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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 7:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

I had the loose drivers side axle many years a go. Although I did also have a Clacking/Ticking when turning corners so maybe yours isn't so bad. It could be one of two things or like mine both. Unfortunately you will have to remove that axle to check. My first problem was a rebuilt axle in which the splines were worn down to points. They should have about a 1/32 to 1/16 flat tip, not coming to a point. After replacing that axle and checking the new one, luckily I checked the front Diff, where the axle goes in. It too had pointy splines. The only good news???? is you can replace that half shaft ( 27-700) without removing the whole front Diff. Just some jack's and swinging it a little to the rear the new half shaft will slide right in. Compare your old passenger side axle to the replacement and maybe you can see the difference in the splines.
1990 4X4 V-6 5-speed
1991 2WD V-6
1994 2WD V-6
Scion Xb
A pile of old timing belts
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Yep nothing at all worked...not even special tools. Now its a 3wd f*ck it..
'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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Cybersombosis
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 10, 2017 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Air hammer/chisel? 4ft prybar?

Doug

97' MPV All Sport 4x4
Black Widow 1600 Alarm, Uhaul class 3 tow hitch, K&N air filter, Bi Xenon HID retrofit.
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

My apologies for being so frustrated everyone...i have used a 70" pry bar while having someone else hold a standard pry bar between the other side (opposite sides of the shaft not the car lol..) to keep it from getting a cocked angle while I harp on it...and I did use sharp motions to try and *pop* it rather than just static pulling. I attempted the wedge technique as poptop had mentioned but unfortunately to no avail. I purchased the 'C' shaped CV axle puller adapter for the big slide hammers they have at the auto parts stores...rented a slide hammer and pounded on it for two darn days. The joints in my arms seem to have taken the brunt rather than the axle. There's enough play on the shaft (I can wobble the inner cup with my hand about 3/4" in any direction) that it might be absorbing the blows if that makes any sense. Unfortunately I can't tell yet if the play is in the axle or the diff as poptop also mentioned.

I have not attempted an air hammer though I do have one...what technique might I use to pull it with my air hammer/ chisel? If there is a method I would love to hear about it as it might be my last hope.

What I have going on right now is that the inner CV got destroyed from all of my attempts at it so it disintegrated and I pulled the axle and inner CV bearings out...now i just have the inner CV 'cup' (for lack of a better term) still in there. I put it back together sans axle so I could back it out of the driveway.


On the D/S axle I got from r*ckauto the inner CV is female...like the splined shaft should be sticking out and I slide the new axle ON rather than IN...which is odd to me... I don't know if this is how its supposed to be? The P/S one was male ended...came out and went in like butter. (Pic is of new D/S)


Again....apologies for the frustration, and thanks all for the help. I have been wrenching my whole life and am not accustomed to being ousted!! Also I am trying to describe everything as best I can in writing so if I'm not explaining things correctly I will try and do that a little better.

'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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Cybersombosis
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

If the old cup is still intact, I've heard of some using the old cup and inserting the new axel sans new cup and putting a new band on the boot. This may be your only option unless you want to take it in and get a garage to try and pop it out.

Air chisel I'm thinking getting it in between the axel and dif. I've not done it so please take it with a grain of salt.

Also with the wedge technique, how did you get enough of a swing? It an awkward position and a good whack is sometimes hard to get with all things being in the way. Maybe poptop can explain how he got enough distance to get a good whack. i.e. Wedge welded to a bar etc.

Doug

97' MPV All Sport 4x4
Black Widow 1600 Alarm, Uhaul class 3 tow hitch, K&N air filter, Bi Xenon HID retrofit.
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poptop
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 14, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

I put the vehicle on jack stands and used an old log splitter wedge. Its only about 6 inches long and goes from a point to about 4 inches wide. Hit it with a 4 lb. sledge. Don't remember having a space issue, but mine only took a couple of hits to break loose. I have also used a length of 2x4 and put one end against the cup and hit the other end with the sledge. The 2x4 will be at an angle, but mine came out fairly easy. It sounds like its corrosion locked and only a sudden impact will free it.
1990 4X4 V-6 5-speed
1991 2WD V-6
1994 2WD V-6
Scion Xb
A pile of old timing belts
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

Alright tried the wedge...nada. Went and bought some 5/8" coarse thread allthread. I'm and idiot...brought the special CV adapter tool nut w/ me to make sure it was the same size. Nut was fine thread (allthread coarse mind you..)....no big deal so bought 4 nuts coarse 5/8". Got home....realized the tool itself was fine threaded. Fail. Filed the fine threads in the tool down w/ a round bastard and slipped it onto the allthread...jam locked it w/ two nuts. Ended up w/ 30lbs slide hammer on 4 feet of allthread. Big thick washers on other end and nut and locknut for smashing..bent the allthread. Then put another pry bar in and commenced smashing w/ sledge. I looked at the CV cup/ splined shaft quite a few times and it appears that rather than pulling the half shaft out...I am actually pulling the guts out of the diff tube. It seems like the carrier bearing is the culprit for the wobble and the telescoping of the two bearing races upon pounding have caused it to disintegrate. So I guess now I have to rebuild the diff tube guts...


'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow


Last edited by IndiWest on Wed Jul 05, 2017 12:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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IndiWest
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

GOT IT! So....basically....the bearings were so rusted to the middle shaft AND the axle tubing that it was just a beast. I've done this job on 3 other vehicles and they've been bad...but nothing like the MPV. What I ended up doing was just taking the subframe skid pan off....getting under it with a big, steel drift and a 4lbs mini sledge. After I soaked it for about 5 days in WD-40, I had to hit it probably (this is literal..) 250 times while rotating it about 10 degrees every few whacks. Mind you, I have been attempting to get this done for quite awhile now...I had hit it with hammers and drifts quite a few times before. I had used the rental slide hammers, bigger slide hammers, huge and small pry bars, dual pry bars, whacking the cup with BFH, wedges, all kinds of stuff. Ultimately there was no big 'pop'ing release...just slowly pounding it out. It ended up releasing at the differential end rather than the steering knuckle end because the latter was SO stuck. I'm probably going to have to throw the axle in a vice and towel and air hammer it for awhile to get the cup off. I still have to take the axle tubing off to find the c-clip near the diff, and replace the dust seal...but that's only two bucks. Meh.

UPDATE: Tried holding the axle shaft with a bench vise and air hammering...no movement from the CV cup. I put a pry bar between the cup and the frozen-on bearing and when I torqued it....I broke the bench vise off at the base. Whoops. I'm thinking I'm either going to make cuts on opposite sides down the cup with a reciprocating saw and then air chisel in the cuts to split it open....or maybe cut off wheel it






'93 MPV 4wd auto w/ tow
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98allsportmpv
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Need some D/S half shaft help Reply with quote

that's nuts! Do you live in the salt belt?
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